>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, A STATE-WIDE SOLUTION.

LAWMAKERS IN SANTA FE EXPLAIN HOW A NEW BILL WOULD CODIFY REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AND NULLIFY LOCAL ABORTION BANS.

>> Serrato: ALREADY ACCESS IS DIFFICULT HERE.

WE DON'T WANT TO ADD FEAR ON TOP OF IT OR CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT THE LAWS ARE.

THIS IS ABOUT INSURING THE PEOPLE ARE NOT SCARED TO GET THE HEALTHCARE THEY NEED.

>> Gene: AND A TOP LAWYER AT THE FIRM THAT HELPED LEAD THE YAZZI MARTINEZ LAWSUIT ASSESSES THE STATE'S RESPONSE TO THAT RULING.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

WE ARE BACK INSIDE THE ROUNDHOUSE THIS WEEK AS LAWMAKERS CONSIDER HOUSE BILL 7, PROPOSED LEGISLATION THAT WOULD BLOCK LOCAL ANTIABORTION ORDINANCES THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

IN LESS THAN 15 MINUTES, NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND ASKS LEADERS THEIR THOUGHTS ON THE PROPOSED BILL.

THEN COMING UP IN THE SECOND HALF OF OUR SHOW, THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS DISCUSS THAT PROPOSED HEALTHCARE BILL AND HOW IT MAY IMPACT SMALLER MUNICIPALITIES AND THE STATE AS A WHOLE.

WE START WITH PUBLIC SAFETY.

ALBUQUERQUE'S NEWEST APPROACH TO COMMUNITY POLICING HAS CAUGHT THE ATTENTION OF THE NATIONAL MEDIA.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

WELCOME TO THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

WE ARE HAPPY TO BE JOINED BY, IN STUDIO BY THE WAY, SERGE MARTINEZ, PROFESSOR AT UNM SCHOOL OF LAW.

WE ARE ALSO JOINED TODAY BY TWO FORMER NEW MEXICO STATE SENATORS, ALWAYS A BIG DEAL, SENATOR DIANE SNYDER RIGHT HERE ON THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE AND DEDE FELDMAN ON THE OTHER SIDE BESIDE SERGE.

LET'S GET GOING HERE.

OUR FIRST TOPIC CONCERNS PUBLIC SAFETY.

THE UNIQUE LOCAL APPROACH TO COMMUNITY POLICING WAS HIGHLIGHTED THIS MONTH BY THE NEW YORKER, THAT'S A MAGAZINE IN CASE YOU DON'T KNOW, AS THE NATIONAL PUBLICATION WROTE ABOUT THE ALBUQUERQUE COMMUNITY SAFETY RESPONDERS.

FAIRLY NEW CITY DEPARTMENT CREATED IN 2020.

THAT IS PRETTY NEW.

ACS HAS 54 FULL-TIME BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CRISIS RESPONDERS, MOSTLY FIELD CALLS RELATED TO MENTAL HEALTH AND HOMELESSNESS THAT PREVIOUSLY WOULD HAVE GONE TO POLICE OFFICERS OR OTHER FIRST RESPONDERS.

WE ARE TALKING 1500 911 CALLS A MONTH.

IT IS AMAZING.

OF THE MORE 20,000 TOTAL CALLS THEY RESPOND TO LESS THAN 1% REQUIRED EVENTUAL POLICE INVOLVEMENT.

THIS WAS BROUGHT UP YEARS AGO THAT WE DON'T ALWAYS NEED PEOPLE WITH GUNS AND BATONS AND UNIFORMS HANDLING MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

HOW DO YOU LIKE THIS PROGRAM?

IS THIS HOW YOU SEE IT?

>> Diane: IT HAS BEEN ON THE FOREFRONT OF DISCUSSION FOR MANY YEARS.

BACK WHEN I WORKED WITH THE EMERGENCY PHYSICIANS ASSOCIATION, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THEY TALKED ABOUT IS -- AND THEY WERE PUTTING IN PLACE ADDITIONAL TRAINING WHICH I NEVER SAW PUBLICIZED, BUT THERE WERE SPECIALTY PEOPLE.

THEY WERE STILL PARAMEDICS BUT THEY WERE GOING OUT WHEN IT WAS MORE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUES RATHER THAN SENDING A COMPLETE AMBULANCE AND STUFF.

THEY HAD A BIG VAN KIND OF THING SO THAT IF THERE WAS A TRUE EMERGENCY, PHYSICAL EMERGENCY, SOMETIMES IT WOULD PROVIDE.

AND THE WHOLE IDEA BEING IS GOES BACK TO HOW FEW AND WHAT A SHORTAGE OF MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS WE HAVE IN NEW MEXICO, WHICH IS REALLY A WHOLE BIG DIFFERENT STORY.

BUT THIS WAS MY FIRST AFFILIATION WITH IT TO UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU DON'T NEED A POLICE OFFICER EVERY TIME.

NOW, I THINK IT PLACES A BURDEN ON THE 911 OPERATOR HELPING DO THINGS AND AS I SAW, IT LOOKED LIKE IT POPS UP AND THESE NON -- WHAT IS IT CALLED -- NOT POLICE OFFICERS.

THE ACS.

THAT THEY LOOK AND SAY, OKAY, I CAN DO THIS.

THEY HAVE BECOME VERY FAMILIAR WITH CERTAIN THINGS IN CERTAIN PEOPLE AND RECURRING INSTANCES.

THE MAIN THING THAT I SEE IT DOING IS IT FREES UP OFFICERS TO GO TO, I MEAN, OUR VIOLENT CRIME AND OUR RESIDENTIAL CRIME IS SO HIGH RIGHT NOW, WE NEED THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THAT ABILITY AND THE WEAPONS, IF NECESSARY, TO GO OUT AND DO IT.

NOW, AS I UNDERSTAND, THESE PEOPLE ARE WELL TRAINED AND ONE OF THE THINGS THEY ARE TRAINED ON IS HOW TO MAKE THE DECISION, DO THEY NEED TO ESCALATE IT UP TO THE NEXT LEVEL?

I THINK THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT BUT -- >> Gene: LET ME CUT IN BECAUSE I GOT SOMETHING ELSE FOR YOU.

I WANT TO GET TO SENATOR FELDMAN.

CIVILIAN STAFF ARE DOING INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS AS WELL AS ASSISTING WITH CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS.

THAT IS NOT FOR THE LAY PERSON.

IF YOU GET MY DRIFT HERE.

LAW ENFORCEMENT IS A FAIRLY -- YOU HAVE TO HAVING SOMETHING BEHIND YOU TO BE ABLE TO DO THESE KIND OF THINGS.

DOES THAT MAKE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE KNOWING CIVILIANS ARE DOING THIS KIND OF WORK?

>> Dede: THE POLICE THEMSELVES THEY DON'T LIKE DOING THAT WORK.

THEY WOULD RATHER BE OUT ON THE STREET.

SO, IT SEEMS TO ME THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE FIELD THAT CAN DO THAT KIND OF INVESTIGATION, PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS, EVEN STUDENTS WHO ARE STUDYING CRIMINAL JUSTICE AT UNM.

AND MANY OTHERS.

SO, IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME.

I THINK IT IS REALLY A GOOD IDEA TO FREE UP THE POLICE.

WE ARE NOT EVER GOING TO HAVE, I THINK, 1300 POLICE AS THEY SAY WE REALLY NEED.

>> Gene: IS THAT THE POINT?

HAVE WE COME TO SOME KIND OF REALITY ABOUT OUR RECRUITMENT POSSIBILITIES HERE IN THIS PROGRAM, IT IS JUST AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF A REALITY WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET TO THAT 1300 OR 1400 NUMBER?

>> Dede: I HAVE HEARD THE MAYOR SAY THAT AND HE SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO USE CREATIVE TECHNOLOGICAL FIXES AS WELL AS CIVILIANS, TECHNOLOGICAL FIXES, LIKE SPEED CAMERAS SO THAT POLICE DON'T HAVE TO BE DOING TRAFFIC STOPS AND, YOU KNOW, ALL KINDS OF OTHER -- THEY HAVE THIS SHOT SPOTTER NOW THAT CAN BE USED.

THAT IS A TECHNOLOGICAL FIX.

LICENSE PLATE READERS, THAT KIND THING.

I THINK IT ALL MAKES SENSE AND ALL VERY DOABLE.

THEY NEED TO FUND IT, THOUGH.

THEY NEED TO FUND IT WELL.

I MEAN IT IS JUST GETTING OFF THE GROUND.

>> Diane: ONE QUICK THING, DOING THE RESEARCH ON MEDIA, YOU KNOW, FACEBOOK, TWITTER ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

THAT WORK HAS TO BE DONE BY SOMEBODY SO HAVE THE OFFICERS OUT ON THE STREET WITH CRIME AND EVEN I CAN GO AND DO RESEARCH.

I AM NOT APPLYING.

>> Gene: ON THE SENATOR'S POINT SERGE, THESE FOLKS MAKE UP THE DIGITAL INTELLIGENCE TEAM, WHICH IS A UNIT THEY CREATED IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS TO ASSIST DETECTIVES IN COMBING THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA ANALYZING PHONE DATA AND VIDEO.

AND THEY ARE ALSO FILLING IN ON POSITIONS ON THE AUTO THEFT UNIT WHICH IS A BIG DEAL AS BAIT CAR TECHNICIANS IN THE CRIME LAB.

THERE IS A LOT OF CRIME NERDS OUT THERE.

I USE THAT RESPECTFULLY.

CITIZENS -- WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS CITIZENS WHO WANT TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE BETTERMENT OF OUR SOCIETY HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

AND THEY ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF POLICE.

THEY WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

WHY IS THIS NOT A GOOD THING TO ALLOW REGULAR CITIZENS TO PITCH IN AND DO THEIR THING HERE?

>> Serge: I MEAN, YOU AND I BOTH KNOW THERE IS PROBABLY MOST OF THE PEOPLE ARE WELL INTENTIONED AND WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

THERE IS PROBABLY SOME, I MIGHT SAY, COWBOYS OUT THERE, WHOO-HOO, RIGHT?

AND MAYBE GET A LITTLE BIT -- WITH POWER BUT GENERALLY THE MORE WE MOVE AWAY FROM THIS IDEA THAT POLICE OFFICERS MUST DO ALL THINGS AT ALL TIMES AND BE LIKE, YOU KNOW, RESPONDING TO TALK ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, TRAFFIC STOPS, TO A CAT UP IN A TREE RIGHT, TO DOING ALL THE STUFF THAT YOU DON'T REALLY NEED.

THEY ARE TRAINED TO RESPOND TO REALLY TENSE, POSSIBLY POTENTIALLY VIOLENT SITUATIONS RIGHT?

BUT THERE IS A LOT THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE THAT AND I THINK IT IS GREAT TO BE THINKING ABOUT DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE CAN BE ALLOCATING THE RESPONSIBILITIES AND RESOURCES IN OUR SYSTEM.

>> Dede: ONE WAY THAT OTHER CITIES HAVE TACKLED THIS IS TO GIVE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT MORE AUTHORITY.

FIREMEN ARE REALLY TRUSTED BY THE POPULOUS RATHER THAN POLICE OFFICERS WHO HAVE HAD SOME PROBLEMS.

AND SO IN CITIES LIKE SANTA FE AND ELSEWHERE AROUND THE COUNTRY, THEY ARE USING PARAMEDICS AND REMEMBER FIREMEN ARE EMT'S, MANY OF THEM.

AND SO, THEY CAN HANDLE SOME OF THESE CALLS THAT, REMEMBER, 911 CALLS, IT IS A QUESTION OF DIVERSION, AS DIANE SAYS, AND IT IS ALSO A QUESTION OF DIVERSION FROM THE EMERGENCY ROOMS BECAUSE THEY NEED TO HAVE PEOPLE APPROPRIATELY TREATED OUTSIDE OF THE EMERGENCY ROOM SO THAT THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PROBLEMS, THE HOMELESS PROBLEMS, THE ALCOHOLICS ARE NOT JUST CALLING 911 BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GET A HOT MEAL AT THE HOSPITAL.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THESE VEHICLES NOW, LIKE IN SANTA FE THERE IS A MOBILE HEALTH UNIT AND THE MOBILE HEALTH UNIT INCLUDES A FIREMAN, INCLUDES A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SPECIALIST, INCLUDES A SOCIAL WORKER, SOMETIMES INCLUDES A PHARMACIST.

AND THEY GO OUT AND THEY RESPOND TO CALLS AS THEY ARE DIVERTED TO THEM.

THEY ARE SPECIALIZING IN STREET PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE STREET.

SOME OTHER UNITS LIKE THIS SPECIALIZE IN ISOLATED ELDERLY PEOPLE WHO CALL 911 BECAUSE THEY HAVE FALLEN AND NEED TO BE PICKED UP.

THEY DON'T NEED TO GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM, THEY JUST NEED TO BE SETTLED.

>> Gene: LET GET A COUPLE THINGS IN.

WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE HERE AND I WANT TO START WITH SENATOR SNYDER.

CHIEF MEDINA VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT UNION IS NOT.

SEAN WILLOUGHBY HAD SOME TOUGH QUOTES ABOUT THIS, MEANING, YOU KNOW, SWORN POLICE OFFICERS' JOB TO CIVILIANS WILL BLOW UP IN THIS POLICE DEPARTMENT'S FACE.

IS IT BEING OVER THE TOP HERE OR DOES HE HAVE A LEGIT POINT?

>> Diane: IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE I TRIED TO REACH A COUPLE OF RETIRED POLICE OFFICERS I KNOW TO SEE WHAT THE OBJECTIONS WERE, AND I DIDN'T.

I ALMOST GAVE UP AND CALLED SEAN THIS MORNING BUT I DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHY HE HAD THOSE THOUGHTS.

EVERYTHING -- I WILL SAY, EVERYTHING, EVERY NEW PROGRAM WE START CAN POSSIBLY BLOW UP.

BUT, TO ME IT GOES BACK TO THAT TRAINING.

YOU HAVE GOT TO TRAIN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT DOING THIS.

SO WE DON'T END UP WITH ONE OF THE COWBOYS OUT ON THE STREET.

>> Gene: ACLU WAS SUPPORTIVE.

THIS IS INTERESTING BED FELLOWS HERE.

VERY INTERESTING.

>> Dede: I DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS GOING TO AFFECT THE CONDUCT OF POLICE WHEN IT COMES TO BRUTALITY OR SHOOTINGS.

>> Gene: WHICH WAS WHAT THEY WERE REFERRING TO WHEN THEY TALKED ABOUT THE PROGRAM, BRING TRANSPARENCY TO THE BLUE.

>> Dede: IT ALSO MIGHT PREVENT A LOT OF CALLS AND CRIME.

>> Diane: IF YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE MENTAL CAPACITY ISSUES, THEN MAYBE THAT DOESN'T BECOME A THREAT.

>> Gene: THANKS TO THE LINE OPINION PANEL FOR THAT ONE.

WE'LL MEET BACK IN 10 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT LEGISLATION UNDER CONSIDERATION THAT WOULD PROTECT REPRODUCTIVE AND GENDER AFFIRMING HEALTHCARE COVERAGE AROUND THE STATE.

>> Saenz: I THINK WHAT THEY ARE MISSING IS THE IMPORTANCE OF THEIR MISSION TO NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY.

REGARDLESS OF PARTY AND NOT JUST IN NEW MEXICO, BUT IN OTHER STATES, THESE CASES RESULT IN DEBATES ABOUT MONEY, HOW MUCH MONEY Y CAN BE EXPENDED ON EDUCATION AND IT IS SHORT SIGHTED NOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT AN INVESTMENT TODAY IN ENSURING EQUAL AND EQUITABLE AND ADEQUATE EDUCATION FOR ALL STUDENTS PAYS OFF IN THE FUTURE IN THE ECONOMY.

>> Gene: NEW MEXICO IS A STEP CLOSER TO CODIFYING ABORTION RIGHTS.

WEDNESDAY EVENING THE HOUSE JUDICIARY PASSED A BILL OUT OF COMMITTEE THAT WOULD GUARANTEE ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE AND GENDER AFFIRMING HEALTHCARE FOR ANYONE IN THE STATE.

THE LEGISLATION HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF RECENT ATTENTION INCLUDING CRITICISM FROM REPUBLICANS WHO WORRIED THE BILL WAS TOO BROAD.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND WENT TO THE ROUNDHOUSE TO GAIN A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS INSIDE THE BILL AND WHAT IT WOULD MEAN FOR NEW MEXICANS IF PASSED.

>> Gwyneth: REPRESENTATIVE SERRATO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING TO US TODAY.

WE ARE LOOKING AT THE REPRODUCTIVE AND GENDER AFFIRMING FREEDOM ACT.

WHAT KIND OF HEALTHCARE IS INVOLVED IN THAT UMBRELLA?

>> Serrato: SO, WE ARE LOOKING AT THE FULL SPECTRUM OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTHCARE.

AND IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE FROM THE MOMENT YOU GET PREGNANT YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS PRENATAL HEALTHCARE ALL THE WAY THROUGH, YOU KNOW, TO YOUR ENTIRE PREGNANCY.

AND THE REASON THAT MATTERS IS THAT THE LINE BETWEEN AN EMERGENCY C-SECTION AND A PREGNANCY AND BIRTH PLAN THAT GOES EXACTLY TO PLAN IS INSTANTANEOUS AS SO MANY NEW MEXICAN MOTHERS AND PREGNANT PEOPLE KNOW, SO WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IS IN THERE.

AND WE ARE ALSO CONFIRMING GENDER CONFIRMING CARE AS WELL WHICH IS PROBABLY AUTONOMY AND THAT IS INCLUDED TO INSURE PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO GET ALL OF THE NECESSARY HEALTHCARE THEY MAY NEED AS THEY ARE LOOKING AT THEIR GENDER IDENTITY.

>> Gwyneth: AND WHAT ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT THAT MEANS?

>> Serrato: WELL, SO, ESPECIALLY BEHAVIOR, OR THERAPY OR OTHER UNDERSTANDINGS, WHAT WE DO KNOW ABOUT GENDER AFFIRMING CARE IS THAT IT IS SUICIDE PREVENTION.

AND WHEN YOUNG PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY, ARE RECOGNIZED IT SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCES THE NUMBERS OF DRUG USE, SUICIDE RATES.

IT REALLY HELPS THEM FEEL LIKE THEY ARE PART OF A COMMUNITY.

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE REALLY ABOUT IN NEW MEXICO, IS THAT EVERYONE CAN DO THEIR THING BUT IT IS IMPORTANT THEY FEEL EMBRACED BY OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> Gwyneth: AREN'T PEOPLE ALREADY FREE TO DO ALL THESE THINGS.

LIKE, WHY DO WE NEED A LAW THAT PROTECTS THEM?

>> Serrato: I OFTEN TALK ABOUT WITH MY FIRST, I HAD GESTATIONAL DIABETES AND THE LAST SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS YOU GO IN TWICE A WEEK FOR A 20-MINUTE ULTRASOUND MAKE EVERYTHING IS GOOD.

THIS WAS HERE IN SANTA FE AND I WAS MEETING WOMEN THAT CAME FROM HOUR PLUS COMMUTES.

THEY WERE COMING ALL THE WAY FROM TAOS AND BEYOND BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T GET THIS KIND OF BASIC PRENATAL CARE.

SO, ALREADY, ACCESS IS DIFFICULT HERE.

WE DON'T WANT TO ADD FEAR ON TOP OF IT OR CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT THE LAWS.

ADDITIONALLY WE KNOW IN NEW MEXICO THAT PEOPLE MAY LIVE IN CHAVES COUNTY BUT THEY GO TO SANDOVAL TO GET HEALTHCARE.

AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT WHEN THEY ARE MAKING THE BEST DECISION FOR THEIR HEALTH AND THEIR FAMILY'S HEALTH AND THEY ARE DOING THAT WITH THEIR DOCTORS THEY ARE NOT SCARED WHEN THEY GO HOME THEY ARE GOING TO BE PROSECUTED OR PERSECUTED.

>> Gwyneth: DO WE HAVE EVIDENCE THAT THIS PERSECUTION AND PROSECUTION IS HAPPENING?

>> Serrato: WE HAVE EXAMPLES FROM OTHER STATES ABOUT HOW A LOT OF THIS IS COMING OUT.

I HAVE A COUPLE OF FRIENDS THAT HAD TO HAVE ABORTIONS LATER IN PREGNANCY AND FOR THEM IT WAS A TRAGEDY.

THEY WENT HOME TO EMPTY NURSERIES AND THAT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM.

BUT THEY WERE ABLE TO GET THE HEALTHCARE THEY NEEDED AND ABLE TO HAVE BABIES LATER.

AND THAT WAS WHAT THEY NEEDED.

SOME OF THE CASES WE ARE SEEING COME OUT OF TEXAS, THESE FOLKS END UP HAVING HYSTERECTOMIES AND THAT IS DIFFICULT TO ALTER THE PLAN THEY HAVE.

SO AGAIN THIS IS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT SCARED TO GET THE HEALTHCARE THEY NEED.

>> Gwyneth: WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DO SUCCEED IN MAKING THIS LAW?

>> Serrato: I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST CONCERNS IS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THIS CHECKERBOARD OF HEALTHCARE LAWS AND POLICIES AND HOW THEY ARE APPLIED TO PEOPLE.

AND, AGAIN, EIGHT OUT OF 10 MATERNAL DEATHS ARE PREVENTABLE.

WE NEED TO KNOW THAT WE ARE NOT SCARED TO GET THE HEALTHCARE TO INSURE WE ARE REDUCING THAT NUMBER OF MATERNAL DEATHS.

>> Gwyneth: REPRESENTATIVE SERRATO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING TO US.

>> Serrato: YEAH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Gwyneth: REPRESENTATIVE JONES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING TO US TODAY.

>> Jones: THANK YOU.

>> Gwyneth: THE SPONSOR OF THE BILL EARLIER TODAY TOLD US THAT THIS IS ABOUT PROTECTING ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE.

SHE SPOKE AS A MOM ABOUT HER OWN PREGNANCIES, ABOUT PROTECTING ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE FROM PRENATAL CARE TO CHILDBIRTH, BIRTH CONTROL AND ABORTION AND GENDER AFFIRMING CARE.

IS THIS HOW YOU SEE THIS BILL IN TERMS OF PROTECTING ACCESS TO CARE?

>> Jones: I THINK THAT I UNDERSTOOD THAT WAS THEIR INTENT BUT I THINK THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO THIS BILL AND IT WAS SO BROAD IT WAS NOT REALLY CLEAR THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF IT.

IT SEEMED MUCH MORE VAGUE, MUCH MORE BROAD AND I THINK THE QUESTIONS WEREN'T REALLY ANSWERED IN TERMS OF PROTECTION, AS SHE WAS SAYING.

>> Gwyneth: SO, WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS?

>> Jones: I REPRESENT PEOPLE.

OF COURSE, THIS BILL WOULD AFFECT EVERYONE IN NEW MEXICO, NOT JUST MY CONSTITUENTS, BUT I HEARD FROM HUNDREDS, IF YOU INCLUDE THE SIGNATURES, OVER THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT WERE VERY CONCERNED AND EVEN OPPOSED TO THIS BILL BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS SO BROAD AND IT WOULD CAUSE PEOPLE WHO WERE PAID BY THE STATE IN ANY CAPACITY TO BE UNABLE TO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO NOT BE INVOLVED OR BE INVOLVED IN, PERHAPS, THEIR STUDENTS' CONCERNS OR ISSUES AND THAT THEY MIGHT SOMEHOW BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR SOMETHING THAT THEY FELT WAS REALLY WRONG.

>> Gwyneth: THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING FORCED TO DO SOMETHING AND BEING PREVENTED FROM INTERFERING.

AND IS THAT A MEANINGFUL DISTINCTION FOR YOU?

>> Jones: WELL, OF COURSE THAT IS MEANINGFUL.

I THINK THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING PROSECUTED EITHER WAY AND ABOUT HOW UNCLEAR THAT WAS, BECAUSE NOT ONLY WOULD A PERSON BE SUBJECT TO A $5,000 FINE BUT ALL OF THE COURT COSTS, ET CETERA.

IT LEAVES IT PRETTY BROAD AND OPEN AS TO WHAT A PERSON WOULD BE LIBEL FOR IF THEY EITHER DID OR DID NOT DO WHAT THE STATE WAS MANDATING IN THE BILL WHICH WAS UNCLEAR.

>> Gwyneth: YOU ARE A NURSE.

YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE IN HEALTHCARE.

DOES THAT GIVE YOU MORE INSIGHT THAN THE AVERAGE PERSON INTO HOW THINGS LIKE THIS WORK?

>> Jones: ABSOLUTELY.

IT REALLY DOES.

I JUST HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR THE FREEDOM, OUR INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS, AND I DO KNOW WHAT FAMILIES GO THROUGH, WHAT CHILDREN GO THROUGH, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, WHICH I FEEL LIKE WE FOCUSED ON IN THE COMMITTEE.

AS A PEDIATRIC NURSE FOR MANY YEARS IN ALL AREAS OF PEDIATRICS, I JUST HAVE A SPECIAL HEART FOR KIDS AND FAMILIES AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DO RECEIVE THE CARE THAT THEY NEED AND THAT AT THE SAME TIME THAT THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED BY THE STATE TO EITHER DO OR NOT DO WHAT THEY FEEL IS WRONG.

>> Gwyneth: THE SPONSOR TOLD US IN TERMS OF THE GENDER AFFIRMING CARE PART OF THIS, SHE WAS VERY BLUNT, SHE SAID THIS IS ABOUT SUICIDE PREVENTION.

SHE SAID WHEN YOUNG PEOPLE GET THIS CARE, THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO HAVE SEVERE PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES AND TRY TO KILL THEMSELVES.

DOES THAT RESONATE?

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU?

>> Jones: OF COURSE IT IS.

ABSOLUTELY.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT RESEARCH.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF THINGS THAT YOUNG PEOPLE EXPERIENCE IN GOING UP THAT CAUSE THEM MENTAL TRAUMA, AND I KNOW THAT CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, BEING UNCERTAIN ABOUT GENDER IS ONE OF THEM.

HOW THAT REALLY AFFECTS OR PLAYS OUT IN RESEARCH IS A QUESTION FOR ME.

I THINK I KNOW ALSO PEOPLE -- IT WAS DISCUSSED IN THE COMMITTEE THAT THERE IS THE OTHER SIDE, THOSE THAT DID RECEIVE GENDER AFFIRMING CARE, WHO FELT LIKE IT WAS NOT THE RIGHT THING IN THE END AND HAVE TURNED AROUND THE OTHER DIRECTION.

SO, THERE IS KIND OF BOTH SIDES TO LOOK AT AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE RESEARCH ON THAT.

I THINK IT IS HARD TO SAY THAT WITH AS LITTLE TIME THAT HAS GONE BY, YOU KNOW.

WE NEED TO LOOK -- THAT IS ONE THING WE'LL LOOK AT IN THE FUTURE.

>> Gwyneth: MARSHALL MARTINEZ, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY.

>> Martinez: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Gwyneth: WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THIS BILL REALLY WORKS.

HELP US UNDERSTAND.

WOULD THIS REQUIRE ANYONE TO PARTICIPATE IN HEALTHCARE, ABORTION, BIRTH CONTROL, GENDER AFFIRMING CARE THAT THEY DON'T AGREE WITH.

WOULD IT FORCE THEM TO DO THAT?

>> Martinez: NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

IN FACT, HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS ALWAYS HAVE THE ABILITY TO REFUSE TO PROVIDE CARE THAT THEY DISAGREE WITH, TO REFER A PATIENT TO ANOTHER PROVIDER, AND ALSO IT SHOULD BE NOTED HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS ONLY PROVIDE THE KIND OF CARE THEY ARE TRAINED TO PROVIDE.

WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS INSURE THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, PUBLIC ENTITIES DON'T STOP PEOPLE FROM ACCESSING THE CARE THEY NEED.

>> Gwyneth: WHO ARE THE KIND OF WORKERS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT?

PEOPLE ARE LIKE, IS THIS ME?

IS THIS THE JOB THAT I DO?

WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

DOCTORS, NURSES?

>> Martinez: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THERAPISTS, PSYCHOLOGISTS, PSYCHOLOGISTS.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SPECIALISTS.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SOME PHYSICIAN, NURSE PRACTITIONERS, PHYSICIANS ASSISTANTS.

>> Gwyneth: TEACHERS?

>> Martinez: WE HAVE BEEN HEARING TEACHERS, SCHOOL NURSES, COUNSELORS.

THOSE FOLKS DON'T PROVIDE HEALTHCARE AND THIS DOESN'T REQUIRE ANYONE TO PROVIDE HEALTHCARE THAT THEY ARE NOT TRAINED TO DO.

WE EXPECT TEACHERS TO CREATE A SAFE CLASSROOM FOR THEIR STUDENTS AND TEACH.

WE EXPECT NURSES TO HANDLE EMERGENCIES.

WE EXPECT GUIDANCE COUNSELORS TO BE THERE FOR STUDENTS TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, TO LISTEN TO THEM.

THOSE FOLKS SHOULD ALL REFER THEM TO FOLKS IN THEIR COMMUNITY, THE RESOURCES THAT THEY MIGHT NEED, BUT THIS BILL IN NO WAY ASKS A TEACHER OR ANYONE ELSE WHO ISN'T NORMALLY A HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL TO SUDDENLY PROVIDE HEALTHCARE.

>> Gwyneth: SO, IF I AM A SCHOOL NURSE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT ABORTION IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR A TEENAGER, AND THEY ASK ME TO -- HOW THEY CAN GET INFORMATION OR HELP ABOUT IT, WOULD THIS REQUIRE ME TO GIVE THEM THAT INFORMATION?

>> Martinez: NO.

THIS BILL WOULD JUST REQUIRE THAT THAT SCHOOL NURSE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS HONESTLY.

AND WE THINK AND WE HOPE THAT THOSE SCHOOL NURSES, REGARDLESS OF THEIR OWN PERSONAL BELIEFS, WOULD REFER THE YOUNG PERSON TO THE RESOURCES THAT EXIST IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

AND IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS WE DON'T WANT SCHOOL DISTRICTS, COUNTIES, CITIES TO STATE THIS TYPE OF HEALTHCARE IS NOT ALLOWED HERE OR WE WILL STOP FOLKS FROM ACCESSING THIS HEALTHCARE.

>> Gwyneth: THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT GENDER AFFIRMING HEALTHCARE MEANS.

FOR THOSE OF US AT HOME WHO ARE KIND OF TRYING TO WRAP OUR MINDS AROUND IT, WHAT IS SOME EXAMPLES?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> Martinez: GENDER AFFIRMING HEALTHCARE ALMOST ALWAYS STARTS AND MAINTAINS BEING MENTAL AND BEHAVIORAL HEALTHCARE.

WHEN WE SEND TRANS FOLKS, ESPECIALLY YOUNG TRANS FOLKS, TO ACCESS GENDER AFFIRMING CARE, WHAT WE MEAN IS GIVING THEM ACCESS TO A THERAPIST, TO A PSYCHIATRIST, PSYCHOLOGIST, LICENSED COUNSELOR WHO WILL AFFIRM THEIR IDENTITY AND HELP THEM PROCESS WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE IN THIS WORLD AND THE TRAUMA THAT MANY TRANS PEOPLE EXPERIENCE IN THIS WORLD WITH THE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AND STIGMA AROUND TRANS FOLKS.

WE IMMEDIATELY HEAR ALL THESE IDEAS ABOUT SURGERIES AND SOME FOLKS ACCESS MEDICAL CARE BUT NOT EVERY TRANS PERSON ACCESSES SURGICAL CARE.

NOT EVERY TRANS PERSON WANTS MEDICAL CARE INCLUDING PRESCRIPTIONS.

WHAT WE KNOW EVERY TRANS PERSON WANTS, NEEDS AND DESERVES IS BEHAVIORAL AND MENTAL HEALTHCARE TO BE IN A SAFE SPACE WHERE THEIR IDENTITY IS AFFIRMED, WHERE THEY CAN WORK OUT WHAT THAT MEANS AND HOW TO WALK THROUGH THIS WORLD ON A DAILY BASIS.

AND IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT GENDER AFFIRMING HEALTHCARE IS SUICIDE PREVENTION.

WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT THIS IS THE NO.

1 INDICATOR THAT A YOUNG TRANS PERSON WILL LIVE INTO ADULTHOOD WITHOUT ATTEMPTING OR SUCCESSFULLY COMMITTING SUICIDE.

GIVING THEM ACCESS TO LIFE-SAVING GENDER AFFIRMING CARE, WHICH IS ALMOST ALWAYS BEHAVIORAL AND MENTAL HEALTHCARE FIRST.

>> Gene: THANK YOU GWYNETH, AND WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE PANELISTS.

LET'S TALK THROUGH THE LEGISLATION ON THE TABLE HERE.

AS GWYNETH EXPLAINED, HOUSE BILL 7 WOULD STOP COUNTIES AND MUNICIPALITIES FROM PREVENTING PUBLIC ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE OR GENDER AFFIRMING HEALTHCARE.

IT WOULD NOT FORCE ANYONE WHO IS RELIGIOUSLY OR MORALLY OPPOSED TO ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN ANY FORM OF THAT CARE.

THAT IS IMPORTANT.

THE BILL WOULD ALSO OVERRULE ABORTION ORDINANCES THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED SINCE THE ROE V. WADE WAS OVERTURNED LAST YEAR.

IN PLACES LIKE LEA AND ROOSEVELT COUNTIES, HOBBS, CLOVIS AND EUNICE, OPPONENTS OF THIS BILL HAVE SAID THIS WOULD REMOVE THE RIGHTS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO GOVERN.

IS THIS LEGISLATION THE WAY WE SHOULD ADDRESS THIS ON THE STATE LEVEL, SERGE MARTINEZ?

LET ME ASK YOU.

IT'S A VERY FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION.

WOULD THE LOCAL MUNICIPALITY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES VERSUS THE STATE?

WHERE DO YOU COME DOWN ON THIS?

>> Serge: IN THIS CASE, THIS IS EASY, RIGHT.

IT IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT HERE IN NEW MEXICO, THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY, RIGHT TO HEALTHCARE.

THAT DOESN'T STOP WHEN YOU CROSS THE CITY LINE OR COUNTY LINE, RIGHT?

STATES HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO PRE-EMPT MUNICIPALITIES FROM DOING LOTS AND LOTS OF AREAS.

THIS ONE WHICH IS SO FUNDAMENTAL AND SO CLEARLY RIGHT IN NEW MEXICO, I THINK, THE LEGISLATION IS SUPERFLUOUS.

THESE LAWS ARE UNENFORCEABLE I THINK, BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT I APPLAUD THE LEGISLATION THAT PASSES THIS FOR SAYING, JUST TO REMOVE ANY DOUBT, RIGHT?

NEW MEXICANS HAVE THESE RIGHTS NO MATTER WHERE THEY GO IN THE STATE AND NO MATTER WHAT THE LOCAL FOLKS ARE SAYING.

>> Gene: DEDE, I AM CURIOUS WHERE YOU THINK THIS SHOULD COME DOWN TOO.

IS THIS OVERSTEPPING RIGHTS OF LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES.

I KNOW YOU'RE STRONG ON LOCAL MUNIS HAVING THEIR SAY ON THINGS, BUT WHAT ABOUT IT IN THIS CASE?

>> Dede: I AM NOT SURE THIS REALLY IS A LOCAL ISSUE.

BECAUSE THERE IS ONE MAN THAT IS GOING AROUND THE COUNTRY ENCOURAGING THESE MUNICIPALITIES, OFTEN IN BORDER AREAS, TO ENACT THESE ORDINANCES SIMPLY TO GET A NATIONWIDE ABORTION BAN AND TO CREATE A COURT CASE THAT THEN MAYBE CAN WORK ITS WAY UP TO THE SUPREME COURT.

YOU KNOW, IT IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE FOR ME OF HOW MUCH DISCORD BETWEEN STATES, BETWEEN PARTIES THE DOBBS DECISION REALLY CREATED.

SO, NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LOCAL VERSUS STATE AND STATE VERSUS STATE.

THAT IS THE LEGACY OF THE DOBBS DECISION.

WE ARE GOING TO BE LIVING WITH IT FOR SOME TIME.

>> Gene: INTERESTING.

SENATOR SNYDER, THE BILL WILL ALLOW THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL OR A DA THE RIGHT TO INITIATE A CIVIL LAWSUIT IN DISTRICT COURT IF THEY FEEL A GOVERNMENT BODY HAS ACTED TO DENY OR PREVENT A LEGAL RIGHT TO OBTAIN REPRODUCTIVE HEALTHCARE SERVICES AND FINE COULD BE CHARGED UP TO $5,000.

I AM CURIOUS HOW THAT HITS YOU IN YOUR GUT.

DO WE NEED THE DA LOOKING OVER PEOPLES' SHOULDERS ON THIS?

SOMETHING SEEMS HEAVY HANDED HERE.

I AM WONDERING WHERE YOU COME DOWN ON THIS.

>> Diane: I HAVE SEVERAL THINGS ABOUT THIS.

ONE IS THE VERY INITIAL THING I AM VERY MUCH A JEFFERSONIAN AND I BELIEVE IN THE RIGHTS OF THE LOCAL POLITICS IS IN THE COMMUNITY THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE.

WE ARE NOT THE SAME IN EVERY PART OF OUR STATE.

OUR BELIEFS ARE DIFFERENT.

SO, DOES THE STATE -- I MEAN THE STATE LEGALLY HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY, YOU CAN'T DO THIS, WE ARE TAKING AWAY YOUR POWER TO DO IT.

SAME THING, THEY COULD DO WITH SCHOOL BOARDS, ET CETERA.

BUT IN DOING A LITTLE RESEARCH ON THIS, THOUGH, THE THING I FOUND SO INTERESTING IS NEW MEXICO IS VERY MUCH A BLUE STATE, DEMOCRATIC, VERY PROGRESSIVE.

TEXAS, OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR, IS A RED STATE, VERY CONSERVATIVE, VERY MUCH REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED.

AND, YES, THE CITY OF AUSTIN, WHICH BY THE WAY ABORTIONS ARE ILLEGAL IN THE STATE OF TEXAS, ALL KINDS OF LITTLE THINGS I AM NOT GOING INTO THE DETAILS BUT THE CITY OF AUSTIN MUNICIPAL LEADERS, THEIR CITY COUNCILORS, I THINK THEY CALL THEM ALSO, WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS ADOPTING NONENFORCEMENT REGULATIONS OR NON-PROSECUTION REGULATIONS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T TELL AN ENTITY THAT YOU HAVE TO BREAK THE LAW, THE STATE LAW.

BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO IS YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, WE ARE DETERMINING THAT WHEN YOU GO OUT FOR AN EMERGENCY OR TO ENFORCEMENT LOOKING FOR, AND FOLLOWING UP ON, THE STORY OR THE ACTIONS OR THE WHATEVER, THAT CONCERNS ABOUT ABORTION ARE DOWN AT THE VERY BOTTOM.

SO THAT YOU DON'T -- YOU'RE NOT GOING TO, THEN, GO ON TO BE PROSECUTED FOR IT IN THAT THEY ARE TELLING THEIR DA'S COUNTY ATTORNEYS, ET CETERA, IS THIS WILL BE YOUR PRIORITY WAY, WAY DOWN ON THE BOTTOM.

SO THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE THE SAFE ABORTION SERVICES IN AUSTIN.

IT IS JUST A REVERSAL OF WHAT IS IN NEW MEXICO.

YES, IT IS.

>> Serge: THEY ARE FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT.

THE IDEA OF THESE PLACES IN NEW MEXICO ARE SAYING, THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT THAT THE NEW MEXICO STATE CONSTITUTION GIVES YOU AND WE ARE SAYING YOU DON'T HAVE IT IN OUR TOWN.

RIGHT?

VERSUS IN AUSTIN, TEXAS, YOU DON'T HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO HAVE YOUR NEIGHBOR GET IN TROUBLE FOR HAVING AN ABORTION, RIGHT, WHICH IS REALLY WHAT IS BEING TAKEN AWAY BY AUSTIN SAYING WE ARE NOT GOING TO ENFORCE IT.

IT IS STILL A STATE LAW.

I DON'T KNOW TEXAS LAW WELL ENOUGH TO KNOW WHO ENFORCES IT.

BUT TEXAS STATE LAW DOESN'T GO AWAY JUST BECAUSE AUSTIN ISN'T ENFORCING IT.

>> Diane: BUT IF WE KEEP MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION, THEN PASSING THE CANNABIS LAWS WE PASSED ARE NOT LEGAL.

BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT STILL SAYS THEY ARE NOT.

IT IS A DRUG THAT IS NOT ON THE LIST OF BEING ABLE TO BE PRESCRIBED.

>> Gene: TYPE 3.

>> Diane: TO ME THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE HERE IS, IT IS LOOKING FOR OTHER WAYS TO PROMOTE YOUR PERSONAL OPINION AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU'RE A RED STATE AND THE BLUES ARE TRYING TO CHANGE THIS THROUGH THEIR LEGAL PROCESS OR WHETHER YOU'RE A BLUE STATE AND THE RED COUNTIES ARE TRYING TO DO IT.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK SENATOR FELDMAN.

INTERESTING, A LOT OF ACTIVITY DOWN SOUTH ABOUT THIS.

LOCAL ANTIABORTION ORDINANCES WE'RE SEEING STAND BEHIND THE 1873 COMSTOCK ACT.

BEFORE YOU ARE AT HOME RUNNING TO YOUR PHONE, YOU CAN DOUBLE.

THAT IS THE WAY WE LIVE RIGHT NOW.

YOU CAN LOOK THIS UP.

BASICALLY THE STANCE IS, SENATOR FELDMAN, THAT SENDING MEDICAL EQUIPMENT FOR ABORTION VIOLATES A 150 YEAR OLD FEDERAL STATUTE THAT STATES IT IS ILLEGAL TO SEND ANYTHING THAT IS OBSCENE, IMMORAL OR INDECENT THROUGH THE MAIL.

>> Dede: AND THAT INCLUDES BIRTH CONTROL PILLS AND THAT INCLUDES THE DAY AFTER PILL.

THIS IS WHY I THINK THEY ARE RELYING ON THERE OBSCURE FEDERAL LAW TO TRY TO FORCE A LAWSUIT, TO TRY TO GET A NATIONWIDE PROHIBITION IN ALL STATES WHICH MANY WOMEN RELY ON STUFF COMING THROUGH THE MAIL.

AND IF THEY CAN INTERFERE WITH INTERSTATE COMMERCE IN THAT WAY, THEN THEY CAN BAN ABORTION NATIONWIDE AND THAT IS WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO.

>> Diane: LET ME MAKE MY POINT, THOUGH.

WHICHEVER SIDE YOU'RE ON, WHICHEVER STAND YOU'RE TAKING, YOU'RE GOING TO SEARCH AND LOOK FOR EVERY POSSIBLE METHOD OR WAY TO GET YOUR OPINION AND YOUR BELIEF IN PLACE.

>> Dede: BUT THAT IS WHERE WE LOOK TO THE LAW.

>> Gene: ON THAT POINT, IF THIS BILL IS PASSED AND ABORTION IS CODIFIED IS THAT THE END OF THE CONVERSATION ABOUT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS HERE IN NEW MEXICO, I MEAN, BESIDES PUSHBACK FROM ANTIABORTION PEOPLE IF THIS PASSES?

THERE IS A LOT OF LAYERS HERE.

>> Dede: I AGREE WITH DIANE ON THAT, IT WILL NOT END IT FOR SURE.

>> Diane: ONE MORE DOOR CLOSED.

>> Dede: IF IT WAS IN THE CONSTITUTION IT MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT STORY.

>> Serge: TEXAS IS STILL GOING TO BE OUR NEIGHBOR, YOU KNOW, I MEAN THESE THINGS -- TEXAS TRYING TO MAKE SURE ITS LAW CREEPS OVER THE BORDER INTO NEW MEXICO.

>> Diane: ALSO, ANOTHER CITY IS TUCSON.

SO IT IS BOTH SIDES OF US.

>> Serge: YES, THERE IS NO END TO THIS ACTIVITY AND TENACITY OF PEOPLE.

>> Gene: LET'S GO BACK TO SOMETHING SENATOR FELDMAN MENTIONED ABOUT WHO IS BEHIND THIS AND ALL THE ACTIVITY.

WHAT HAPPENS IF HOUSE BILL 7 WERE TO PASS?

COULD THIS EVENTUALLY ESCALATE BEYOND TO THE STATE SUPREME COURT?

AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, IS THAT THE GOAL HERE?

TO GO TO A SUPREME COURT CASE?

>> Dede: I THINK THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS ALREADY INVOLVED WITH IT.

AND HE IS TRYING TO PREVENT THESE LOCAL ORDINANCES AS A VIOLATION OF STATE LAW.

SO, THAT WILL CONTINUE.

I AM NOT SURE THAT HOUSE BILL 7 WILL BE CHALLENGED IN COURT.

I THINK IT WILL PROBABLY BE SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE CHALLENGED.

>> Gene: LET ME MENTION, I AM GLAD YOU MENTIONED RAUL TORREZ BEING, NEW MEXICO ATTORNEY GENERAL.

HE ASKED THE STATE SUPREME COURT TO CONSIDER THE MATTER.

HE SEES WHERE THE END GAME IS GOING AND IT IS INTERESTING HERE.

WOULD IT MATTER TO YOU IF IT WENT TO THE SUPREME COURT?

DO YOU HAVE A PREDICTION ABOUT HOW IT FALLS IF IT WENT THAT FAR.

>> Diane: NO, I WOULDN'T OBJECT.

I THINK THE METHOD, AGAIN, THE PROCESS, IS, AGAIN, ON ISSUES IF YOU'RE GOING TO THE COURT, YOU HAVE GOT TWO DIFFERENT SIDES.

AND SO THE PROCESS IS THERE FOR ANYONE TO USE SO I DO NOT OBJECT TO THE PROCESS OF GOING TO THE SUPREME COURT.

I THINK THAT MR. TORREZ WILL RUN INTO SOME CONFLICTS WITH COUNTY ATTORNEYS AND OTHERS THAT -- >> Gene: I AM JUST BEGINNING THE SMELL AGAIN, LIKE, MR. TORREZ RUNNING FOR STATE-WIDE OFFICE AND HERE WE ARE AGAIN.

RIGHT, YOU GET THIS LITTLE TINY THING YOU GOT TO DEAL WITH.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR PANEL FOR THAT DISCUSSION.

WE'LL BE BACK IN LESS THAN 10 MINUTES, FOR A DISCUSSION ON THE GROWING NUMBER OF DOCTORS LEAVING OUR STATE.

I'LL ASK OUR PANELISTS WHY IT IS HAPPENING AND WHAT SOLUTIONS ARE OUT THERE.

BUT, FIRST, AN UPDATE ON A KEY COURT CASE MANDATING MAJOR CHANGES IN HOW OUR STATE EDUCATES ITS MOST VULNERABLE STUDENTS.

THE MEXICAN AMERICAN LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATIONAL FUND REPRESENTS LUIS MARTINEZ, ONE OF THE LEAD PLAINTIFFS IN THE YAZZI MARTINEZ LAWSUIT.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT RUSSELL CONTRERAS RECENTLY CAUGHT UP WITH MALDEF PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL, TO TALK ABOUT THE ONGOING STATE RESPONSE TO THAT HISTORIC COURT RULING.

>> Russell: THOMAS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AGAIN HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Saenz: HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> Russell: IT HAS BEEN 11 YEARS SINCE THE FIGHT THAT WE NOW CALL MARTINEZ YAZZI STARTED.

FIRST OFF, GIVE US A QUICK REMINDER WHAT THE BATTLE IS ABOUT AND WHAT IS THE UPDATE?

>> Saenz: BASICALLY THE CASE IS ABOUT THE RIGHT TO BASIC AND EQUITABLE EDUCATION IN NEW MEXICO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SO, EVER SINCE THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT HALF A CENTURY AGO CONCLUDED THAT THE U.S. CONSTITUTION DOES NOT TREAT EDUCATION AS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT, WE HAVE BEEN LEFT WITH RAISING CHALLENGES LIKE THIS IN STATE COURT UNDER STATE CONSTITUTIONS.

SO, IN NEW MEXICO, THE MARTINEZ CASE IS THE CASE THAT ESTABLISHED THAT UNDER NEW MEXICO'S STATE CONSTITUTION, THERE IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO AN ADEQUATE AND EQUITABLE EDUCATION.

SO WHERE WE ARE TODAY IS AFTER A LENGTHY TRIAL IN WHICH THE STATE COURT DID CONCLUDE THAT THERE WAS A VIOLATION OF THAT RIGHT UNDER NEW MEXICO STATE CONSTITUTION IN THE CURRENT NEW MEXICO PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.

SO THE QUESTION SINCE THEN HAS BEEN ABOUT THE ADEQUACY OF THE REMEDY FOR THAT VIOLATION.

SO, THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS ACTED TO INCREASE SOME OF THE FUNDING FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION, TO MAKE OTHER REFORMS.

AND REALLY WHAT IS GOING ON NOW IS A LENGTHY DETERMINATION THROUGH EVIDENCE GATHERING, THROUGH TESTIMONY, OF WHETHER THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN SOLVED OR NOT OR WHETHER THERE REMAINS A VIOLATION OF THE NEW MEXICO CONSTITUTION.

AND THE CASE WAS BROUGHT, AS YOU KNOW, ON BEHALF OF STUDENTS WHO REALLY WERE NOT RECEIVING AN EQUITABLE EDUCATION IN NEW MEXICO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

AND THAT INCLUDES THOSE WITH SPECIAL EDUCATION, INCLUDES LATINO STUDENTS, INCLUDES NATIVE STUDENTS.

IT INCLUDES MAKING SURE THAT ALL STUDENTS RECEIVE AN EQUITABLE OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> Russell: NOW, AT THIS POINT, THIS LAWSUIT HAS GONE THROUGH A REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION AND A DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATION.

BOTH HAVE FOUGHT THESE LAWSUITS.

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT ARE THEY MISSING IN CONTINUING TO FIGHT THESE LAWSUITS, APPEAL AND KEEP THEM IN THE COURT SYSTEM?

>> Saenz: I THINK WHAT THEY ARE MISSING IS THE IMPORTANCE OF EDUCATION TO NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY.

SO, A LOT OF TIMES, REGARDLESS OF PARTY, AND NOT JUST IN NEW MEXICO BUT IN OTHER STATES, THESE CASES RESULT IN DEBATES ABOUT MONEY.

HOW MUCH MONEY CAN BE EXPENDED ON EDUCATION AND IT IS VERY SHORTSIGHTED NOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT AN INVESTMENT TODAY IN INSURING AN EQUAL AND EQUITABLE AND ADEQUATE EDUCATION FOR ALL STUDENTS PAYS OFF IN THE FUTURE IN THE ECONOMY WITH MORE STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE WELL PREPARED TO DO THE JOBS OF THE 21ST CENTURY, WELL PREPARED TO INNOVATE, WELL PREPARED TO ADVANCE THE ECONOMIC PROGRESS OF THE ENTIRE STATE.

IT IS OFTEN A FAILURE TO SEE THE LONG-TERM ECONOMIC BENEFIT AND INSTEAD MAKING DECISIONS BASED ON SHORT-TERM BUDGETARY CONCERNS.

>> Russell: ON THAT NOTE, I HAVE TALKED TO DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS.

THEY TOLD ME, LOOK, I BELIEVE THE GOALS OF THESE LAWSUITS BUT WE CAN'T LET THE COURTS DECIDE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T AFFORD.

VERY SIMILAR ARGUMENT TO WHAT WE HAVE HEARD BEFORE.

IF THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE LEGISLATIVELY, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> Saenz: WELL, UNFORTUNATELY THE LEGISLATURE HASN'T MET ITS CONSTITUTIONAL OBLIGATION UNDER NEW MEXICO'S CONSTITUTION AND IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE THE COURTS HAVE TO INTERVENE.

THE COURTS ARE NOT DICTATING HOW MUCH MONEY IS TO BE SPENT OR EVEN SPECIFICALLY HOW IT IS TO BE SPENT.

BUT, BOTH OF THOSE PLAY SOME ROLE IN DETERMINING WHETHER THERE IS AN ONGOING CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATION OR IT HAS BEEN REMEDIED, WHICH MEANS THE COURTS HAVE TO LOOK AT IT.

IS THERE AN ADEQUATE INVESTMENT FOR ALL STUDENTS IN THE STATE AND THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT, ARE THE RIGHT MECHANISMS TO MONITOR, DOCUMENT AND THEN REMEDY ANY CONTINUED DISPARITIES, DISCRIMINATIONS IN NEW MEXICO'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SO, I WISH THAT THE HISTORICAL TRACK RECORD OF THE LEGISLATURE HERE AND IN OTHER STATES WAS SUCH THAT THEY HAD DEMONSTRATED THE ABILITY TO ADDRESS THE IMPERATIVE OF PROVIDING AN ADEQUATE AND EQUITABLE EDUCATION TO ALL STUDENTS.

BUT THAT IS NOT THE TRACK RECORD.

SO COURTS HAVE TO INTERVENE TO ENSURE THAT THE NEW MEXICO CONSTITUTION, THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE WHO RATIFIED IT, IS REFLECTED IN AN ONGOING WAY IN THE EDUCATION SYSTEM.

>> Russell: ON THAT NOTE, WITH THE PASSAGE OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT NO.

1, FREEING UP MORE MONEY FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION ON TOP OF OTHER FUNDING ADVANCEMENTS AND A MASSIVE OIL AND GAS SURPLUS WE HAVE IN NEW MEXICO, IS THERE A LACK OF MONEY?

IS THAT THE ARGUMENT AGAINST RESPONDING TO THE NEEDS OF HIGHLIGHTING IN THIS LAWSUIT BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL THIS GOING ON.

ONE WOULD ASSUME THIS COULD BE EASILY SOLVED.

>> Saenz: WELL, WHAT YOU ARE POINTING OUT, IT IS NOT ALWAYS A MATTER OF TO SPEND THE MONEY THAT IS AVAILABLE.

IT IS A MATTER OF PRIORITY SETTING.

IS EDUCATION GOING TO BE THE TOP PRIORITY.

THESE RECENTLY ENACTED MEASURES ARE CERTAINLY AN INDICATION OF PROGRESS THAT THE VOTERS OF NEW MEXICO BELIEVE THAT EDUCATION SHOULD BE A, IF NOT THE, TOP PRIORITY.

BUT THE DEBATE ABOUT ECONOMIC CONSTRAINTS IS ALWAYS ABOUT WHERE THE MONEY THAT IS AVAILABLE SHOULD BE ALLOCATED.

SHOULD IT BE ALLOCATED TO SCHOOLS OR SHOULD IT BE ALLOCATED ELSEWHERE IN TERMS OF THE MANY GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS.

SO, AGAIN, THESE MEASURES ARE AN IMPORTANT INDICATION THAT THE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT EDUCATION SHOULD BE THE PRIORITY INCLUDING ALLOCATING ADDITIONAL RESOURCES TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF PROVIDING AN EQUAL AND ADEQUATE EDUCATION FOR ALL STUDENTS.

>> Russell: CHICANO PIONEER AND SCHOLAR GEORGE I SANCHEZ HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WROTE ABOUT INEQUALITY IN THE STATE IN 1940 WITH HIS BOOK "THE FORGOTTEN PEOPLE."

IT APPEARS SOME OF THE COMPLAINTS IN THESE LAWSUITS ARE GOING BACK TO HIS CRITIQUE ALMOST A CENTURY AGO.

WHY IS IT THAT NEW MEXICO, AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, ALL THESE DECADES, CANNOT WRAP ITS HEAD AROUND EQUALITY AND EQUITY FOR MEXICAN AMERICAN AND NATIVE AMERICAN STUDENTS IN THE STATE?

>> Saenz: WELL, I THINK WE HAVE THE LONG-TERM LEGACY OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THOSE TWO GROUPS AND OTHERS THAT WAS SO BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM 100 YEARS AGO, BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM EVER SINCE, WHEN SOMETHING IS SYSTEMIC, IT IS VERY HARD TO ROOT IT OUT.

WHAT WE HAVE IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE IS A FAILURE OF SOME OF THE MAIN MECHANISMS OF ACCOUNTABILITY TO TAKE PART.

I PLACE A LOT OF THE BLAME AND NOT JUST IN NEW MEXICO, NATIONWIDE, ON THE DECISION WHICH WILL BE 50 YEARS OLD THIS YEAR, BY THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT OUT OF THE NEIGHBORING STATE OF TEXAS, WHEN THE JUSTICES, BY A NARROW MAJORITY, CONCLUDED THAT EDUCATION IS NOT A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT UNDER OUR FEDERAL CONSTITUTION.

WHEN THEY REACHED THAT DECISION, IT ESSENTIALLY MEANT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD NOT PLAY A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN ENSURING EQUAL OPPORTUNITY IN EDUCATION AS IT DOES IN OTHER ARENAS.

AND IRONICALLY AS IT HAD IN THE FOUNDATIONAL CIVIL RIGHTS CASE OF BROWN VERSUS BOARD OF EDUCATION WHICH WAS ABOUT EDUCATIONAL EQUITY AND YET IN 1973 THEY WITHDREW FROM PLAYING A MAJOR ROLE.

THAT, THEN, MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR THOSE SYSTEMIC DEEPLY ROOTED PROBLEMS TO CONTINUE AND BE PERPETUATED THROUGH DECADE AND DECADE UP TO TODAY.

SO, THIS AGAIN IS NOT A PROBLEM SOLELY IN NEW MEXICO.

IT IS REALLY A PROBLEM WITH PUBLIC EDUCATION ACROSS THE COUNTRY BECAUSE WE HAVE THESE DEEPLY ROOTED SYSTEMIC INEQUITIES AND THEN WE HAVE NOT ALLOCATED THE RIGHT RESOURCES, PLAYERS, MECHANISMS TO ENSURE THAT THAT SYSTEMIC PROBLEM CAN BE SOLVED.

>> Gene: TIME TO WELCOME BACK OUR PANELISTS FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION.

DOCTORS AND MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS ACROSS THE BOARD HAVE BEEN LEAVING NEW MEXICO AND LOCAL LAWMAKERS AREN'T SURE WHAT TO MAKE OF IT, ACCORDING TO THE NEW MEXICO HEALTHCARE WORKFORCE ANNUAL REPORT, NEW MEXICO IS BELOW THE NATIONAL BENCHMARK FOR ITS NUMBER OF PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIANS, PSYCHIATRISTS, OBGYN PRACTITIONERS AND GENERAL SURGEONS.

THE GENERAL REPORT IS MOST LOCAL DOCTORS POINT TO IS 2021'S MEDICAL MALPRACTICE LAW WHICH RAISED CAP ON DAMAGES AND INCREASED THE COST OF MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURANCE.

SENATOR FELDMAN THAT INCREASED RATE IS SOME WHERE BETWEEN TWO OR THREE TIMES RATES FOUND IN COLORADO, ARIZONA, TEXAS.

SHOULD WE BE SURPRISED HERE AT THIS RESULT?

>> Dede: THE INCREASING COSTS OF MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURANCE IS ONE PIECE OF THE PUZZLE BUT OUR SHORTAGES IN THE HEALTH WORKFORCE PREDATED THE PASSAGE OF THE MEDICAL MALPRACTICE BILL OR THE LIFTING OF THE CAP OF THE MEDICAL MALPRACTICE.

THIS IS AN OLD STORY.

WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN REALLY SHORT OF PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIANS, ESPECIALLY IN THE RURAL AREAS AND SPECIALISTS TOO.

AND SO WE HAVE TRIED VARIOUS SOLUTIONS.

THE MALPRACTICE IS ONE PART OF IT.

MEDICAID IS ANOTHER PART OF IT.

AND LOAN FORGIVENESS IS ANOTHER PART OF IT.

AND YOU KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT SORT OF MILITATE AGAINST NEW MEXICO WHEN WE ARE ATTRACTING DOCTORS HERE.

WE HAVE TRIED TO GROW OUR OWN WORKFORCE FROM UNM WITH THE BA M.D.

PROGRAM.

THAT HAS WORKED BUT IT IS SLOW GOING.

IT IS NOT LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY THAT GRADUATES FROM YALE MEDICAL SCHOOL IS GOING TO WANT TO LOCATE IN ROY, NEW MEXICO.

THEIR WIVES ARE GOING TO WONDER, IS THERE A NORDSTROM'S HERE?

NO, THERE ISN'T A NORDSTROM'S.

>> Diane: MAYBE A RACK.

>> Gene: THE NUMBERS ARE NOT GOOD HERE.

ACCORDING TO THAT WORKFORCE COMMITTEE REPORT, WE ARE 334 PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIANS BELOW WHERE THEY SAY THE PROVIDER-TO-POPULATION BENCHMARK SHOULD BE.

THAT IS A BIG NUMBER.

I MEAN, THAT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE.

I JUST -- I AM A LITTLE LOST HOW WE TURN THAT KIND OF THING AROUND BUT, AGAIN, YOUR SENSE OF WHERE WE ARE WITH THIS KIND OF LOSS?

CAN WE BLAME IT DIRECTLY ON THIS 2021 BILL OR AS DEDE MENTIONED, IS SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON?

>> Serge: I THINK IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY, OH, WE PASSED THIS AND THERE IS A STRAIGHT LINE.

I MEAN, WE ARE A VERY RURAL STATE.

IT IS NOT JUST NEW MEXICO, RURAL COMMUNITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY HAVE HAD TROUBLE ATTRACTING AND RETAINING DOCTORS AND THAT 330 SHORTAGE IS NOT EVENLY SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE STATE, RIGHT.

IT IS ALL MORE DISPROPORTIONATELY THAT ARE MORE RURAL AND HAVE LOWER POPULATIONS.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU THIS, THOUGH.

IN THE ARTICLE INTERESTING QUOTE HERE.

DR. TODD WILLIAMS OF SAN JUAN PLASTIC SURGERY IN FARMINGTON TELLS THE JOURNAL HE IS PAYING GUYS ABOUT $65,000 A YEAR IN MALPRACTICE INSURANCE.

HE SAID THE SAME INSURANCE WOULD COST $18,000 A YEAR IF HE DID IT IN COLORADO.

JUST A FEW MILES AWAY.

THAT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE, NOT LIKE A 10% OR SOMETHING.

>> Serge: THAT IS THE KIND OF THING THAT THE ECONOMICS ARE WHAT THEY ARE, THAT MIGHT BE THE KIND OF THING THAT A CREATIVE STATE'S APPROACH TO IT WOULD SAY, LOOK, WE CAN MAYBE ADDRESS SOME OF THAT THROUGH HELPING WITH THOSE INSURANCE PREMIUMS OR BE A SELF-INSURED STATE.

I HAVE NO IDEA THE ACTUAL NUMBERS, RIGHT, BUT I AM SAYING, IT CRIES OUT FOR A CREATIVE SOLUTION THAT IS NOT THROW UP OUR HANDS AND SAY, YEAH, I GUESS EVERYONE IS GOING TO COLORADO.

SAY, OKAY, IF IT IS PURELY A MONEY ISSUE, AND A LOT OF THESE THINGS WE SAY, OH, IT IS JUST MONEY, RIGHT, THAT CAN BE DEALT WITH.

YOU CAN SAY IF THAT IS ALL IT IS, WE CAN HELP THAT AND MAKE SURE FOLKS STAY IN FARMINGTON AND ROY AND WHATEVER, RIGHT?

>> Gene: ON A SIMILAR QUESTION, SOME DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS HAVE BOUGHT THE IDEA OF ROLLING THIS THING BACK, AS YOU MIGHT KNOW, THE 2121 LEGISLATION, SAYING THE LAW WAS A BIPARTISAN COMPROMISE AND SHOULD BE GIVEN TIME TO WORK.

IS IT TOO EARLY TO AMEND THIS THING IF YOU WANTED TO DO IT IN THE SESSION NOW?

ARE WE JUMPING THE GUN HERE OR SHOULD THIS HAVE TIME TO PLAY ITSELF OUT?

>> Dede: I THINK IT WILL HAVE TIME TO PLAY ITSELF OUT BECAUSE IT IS NOT GOING TO PASS THIS TIME.

IT IS ONLY REALLY BEEN SIX MONTHS SINCE THE FIX, SO-CALLED FIX, BIPARTISAN FIX WAS IN.

MEANWHILE, YOU KNOW, I AM WITH SERGE, WE HAVE TO LOOK FOR SOME CREATIVE FIXES TO OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT COMPLETELY DEPEND UPON THE DOCTOR.

THE DOCTOR WILL FIX IT.

YOU KNOW.

WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, FOCUS ON COMMUNITY HEALTH WORKERS AND MID-LEVEL PRACTITIONERS AND, YOU KNOW, TELE-MEDICINE PROJECTS THAT WILL FILL THE GAP IN THIS KIND OF BROKEN MEDICAL SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

>> Gene: I KNOW WHEN YOU WERE SERVING OUR STATE IN THE LEGISLATURE I REMEMBER YOU TALKING ABOUT MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENT QUITE A BIT.

THAT IS STILL A BIG DEAL HERE.

SENATOR SNYDER, GET IN ON THIS.

AGAIN, DO WE FILL IN THE GAPS HERE WITH OTHER THINGS OR IS THIS THE SOLUTION?

>> Diane: DEDE HAS GIVEN SOME GOOD LIP BUT THE ONE I DIDN'T HEAR MENTIONED WAS THE GRT ON MEDICAL SERVICES.

THAT IS SOMETHING THEY CAN FIX.

AND ALSO THIS AGREED TO LAW IN 2021 IT WAS EVERYBODIES -- A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID, "THIS IS THE BEST WE ARE GOING TO GET RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE GOT TO HAVE SOMETHING."

EVERYBODY WAS NOT IN AGREEMENT ABOUT IT.

ONE OF THE BIG CHANGES THAT HAS BEEN COMING AND I BELIEVE WAS INCLUDED IN THIS IS HOSPITAL PHYSICIANS.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRIVATE PHYSICIANS AND HOSPITAL PHYSICIANS AND EVERYBODY WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THE PATIENT COMPENSATION FUND IN THE MEDICAL MALPRACTICE ACT.

BUT WHEN YOU EXPAND THAT, THAT IS MORE PEOPLE GOING FROM THE POT OF THE COMPENSATION FUND AND IT WAS JUST A TOKEN AMOUNT OF EXTRA MONEY PUT IN.

THAT IS ANOTHER ISSUE THEY COULD VERY EASILY DO THIS SESSION AND WITH ALL THE MONEY -- WHEN YOU TALK IN TERMS OF BILLIONS, EXTRA MONIES, YOU NEED TO -- AND A MAJOR PROBLEM THAT IMPACTS EVERYBODY, YOU OUGHT TO FIX IT.

>> Gene: CAN I READ YOU A QUOTE.

YOU GUYS ALL KNOW SENATOR MARTIN HICKEY WHICH HE CAME TO ALBUQUERQUE, OF COURSE, HE WAS A PHYSICIAN AND FORMER CEO OF LOVELACE.

I THINK HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT IN THIS.

BUT HERE IS A GREAT QUOTE IN THE JOURNAL.

HE SAYS THE STATE'S PATIENT COMPENSATION FUND FACES, QUOTE, AN ACTORIAL DEATH SPIRAL IF SOMETHING ISN'T DONE.

THE STATE GOVERNMENT INCOME OF NEARLY TWELVE BILLION THIS HERE, SERGE, AS SENATOR SNYDER JUST MADE THE POINT, IF THIS IS A MONEY FIX, WHY DON'T WE JUST GET AFTER IT, WE HAVE MONEY?

>> Serge: IT IS HARD TO THINK OF ANYTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE HEALTH OF PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO AND ONGOING TREATMENT, PREVENTION AND SETTING UP AN INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS GOING TO ALLOW US TO HAVE A HEALTHY STATE.

AND, YOU KNOW, IF OUR STATE CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO FOCUS ON THIS ISSUE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE CAN BE.

>> Gene: FINAL QUESTION HERE, FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION WE STARTED WITH, IF LAWMAKERS WERE TO ROLL BACK THE CAP TO 600,000 THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE THE LAW WAS CHANGED IN 2021, WOULD THAT AUTOMATICALLY SOLVE THE PROBLEM IN YOUR MINDS EYE, SENATOR?

IS THAT PROBLEM HERE?

>> Dede: NO THAT WOULD DEFINITELY NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

AND, REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, IT IS A BALANCING ACT.

YOU DO HAVE TO PROTECT PATIENTS.

YOU DO HAVE TO PROTECT CONSUMERS.

>> Gene: PATIENTS HAVE BEEN WRONGED, SPECIFICALLY.

THAT IS WHY MALPRACTICE IS THERE.

>> Dede: THAT IS WHY IT IS ALWAYS A COMPROMISE, THE LEVEL OF THE LIABILITY.

AND SO, NO, IT WOULD NOT -- >> Diane: AND IF THERE IS MONEY IN THE POT, YOU DON'T HAVE THIS UNDERLYING DEBATE ABOUT SHOULD THE CAP BE LOWER OR SHOULD THE CAP BE HIGHER OR AT LEAST IT REDUCES THE PRESSURE.

HAVE MORE MONEY IN THE CONTEMPLATION FUND.

IT IS A NO BRAINER.

>> Gene: IT IS A LOT OF MONEY, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

LAST QUESTION, SERGE, FOR YOU.

AGAIN SHOULD THIS BE VISITED AT LEAST IN CONVERSATION IN COMMITTEE?

IT DOESN'T MEAN SOMETHING HAS TO HAPPEN.

WE HAVE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION.

SOMETHING IS GOING ON HERE.

>> Serge: IT IS AN ISSUE THAT DEFINITE WARRANTS DISCUSSION AND SAYING, OKAY, LOOK WE MAY NOT FIX IT RIGHT NOW BUT WE ARE ALL COMMITTED TO ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE BECAUSE IT IS SO IMPORTANT FOR NEW MEXICO.

>> Gene: ON A PERSONAL NOTE, ONE OF THOSE ISSUES THAT PROBABLY NEEDS A FULL-TIME LEGISLATURE.

YOU CANNOT DISCUSS THESE THINGS IN THE FORMAT WE HAVE NOW.

YOU JUST CAN'T.

THANKS AGAIN TO THE LINE PANELISTS THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF ANY TOPIC THESE WONDERFUL PEOPLE COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES AND CATCH ANY EPISODE YOU MIGHT HAVE MISSED ON THE PBS APP, ON YOUR ROKU OR SMART TV.

I WANTED TO NOTE THE PASSING THIS WEEK ON THURSDAY SPECIFICALLY THE MUSICAL ICON BURT BACHARACH.

I GREW UP IN A BACHARACH AND DIONNE WARWICK HOUSEHOLD.

IF YOU'RE OF A CERTAIN VINTAGE THE MAN'S MUSIC WAS A SOUND TRACK FOR OUR LIVES IN THE 60'S.

FOR THOSE WHO MISSED IT IN REALTIME, YOU LIKELY DO KNOW THE TUNES WITHOUT KNOWING IT WAS HIM.

THAT IS HOW BIG HIS WORK WAS.

WHAT FASCINATES ME TO THIS DAY ABOUT HIS MUSIC, IS IT QUIETLY SPOKE TO FOLKS ABOUT LOVE AND RELATIONSHIPS AND THE NEED TO STOP AND LISTEN TO WHAT THE WORLD IS TELLING YOU.

AND AT THE SAME TIME DURING THE 60'S THE NATION WAS ROILING IN A NOISY CULTURAL WAR THAT CONTINUES TO THIS DAY.

THINK ABOUT IT THIS WAY, IF IN 1970 SOMEONE DROPPED A NEEDLE ON THE CARPENTER SMASH HIT "CLOSE TO YOU" AND TOLD YOU THIS SONG WAS SLATED TO BE NO.

1 HIT, YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT GIVEN THE TIMES.

THAT IS HOW POWERFUL HIS WORK WAS.

FOR THE MEMORY, WE POSTED A FUN YOUTUBE LINK TO THE TOP 20 BURK BACHARACH SONGS AND IT IS A BREATHTAKING LIST.

THE WORD TIMELESS GETS THROWN A LOT WHEN IT COMES TO MUSIC.

LET ME SUGGEST THIS.

GO LISTEN TO THE 1965 JACKIE DESHANNON HIT, "WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS NOW IS LOVE," AND COME TALK TO ME ABOUT TIMELESS.

RIP BURT BACHARACH AND THANK YOU.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.